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49ersparadise.com FORUM  |  49ers Paradise  |  49ers Paradise - Literally!  |  Topic: John Thomas O'Sullivan 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: John Thomas O'Sullivan  (Read 17346 times)
D-roc
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #750 on: September 24, 2008, 02:23:36 PM »
Quote from: mountainjack on September 24, 2008, 02:19:54 PM
J.T. is playing for his favorite team since childhood, the ONLY one that has given him an opportunity.  He'll be signed, sealed and delivered and Martz won't be going anywhere.

I think your right MJ now will Martz be the coach or the oc?

That is a discussion for the Martz thread of course....
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TIM
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #751 on: September 24, 2008, 02:25:27 PM »
Quote from: mountainjack on September 24, 2008, 02:19:54 PM
J.T. is playing for his favorite team since childhood, the ONLY one that has given him an opportunity. He'll be signed, sealed and delivered and Martz won't be going anywhere.

That's right MJ,I had forgotten that angle.
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D-roc
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #752 on: September 24, 2008, 02:28:43 PM »
Another angle to consider is that we have to eat about 5 mil. in Alex dead money along with getting JTO done long term. 

Are we getting ahead of ourselves on the JTO extension talk?

He has to keep this up for several more weeks or it is all obviously a moot point.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #753 on: September 24, 2008, 02:32:55 PM »
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Are we getting ahead of ourselves on the JTO extension talk?

We are in a tough spot here because JTO is only on a one-year contract.  If he continues to perform we have to resign him but look at Derek Anderson and David Garrard.  They had one good season and then were signed to a big contract and now both look terrible
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D-roc
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #754 on: September 24, 2008, 02:41:39 PM »
Quote from: 49ersHarv on September 24, 2008, 02:32:55 PM
Quote
Are we getting ahead of ourselves on the JTO extension talk?

We are in a tough spot here because JTO is only on a one-year contract.  If he continues to perform we have to resign him but look at Derek Anderson and David Garrard.  They had one good season and then were signed to a big contract and now both look terrible

That is a great point Harv. I wish we would have signed him to a 2 year deal give us more time to look at him....

Anyway, it is what it is.  In Martz I/we trust.  Not like we have much of a choice.   Then again, he's been spot on about JTO from day one.....
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flacksaw
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #755 on: September 24, 2008, 02:45:19 PM »
How does Martz do it (find great QB's off the scrap pile from other teams)?  I have an opinion....He looks strictly at the ability of players on the team, not at how big their contract is or how high they were drafted!  Nolan/McLoughan have a history of ALWAYS playing the contract no matter how horrible he's playing....(Tony Parrish, Brandon Williams, Larry Allen, Alex Smith all come to mind).

One of the reasons that I regard Mike Shanahan as one of the best coaches in the NFL, ever?  I remember hearing that John Elway was the only guy on the '98 Super Bowl winning team that was drafted in the 1st round!  As a matter of fact I think it was something like no players earlier than round 4 other than Elway!  Now THERE's a coach that sees talent and then LETS IT PLAY!

Mike Martz is cut from the same cloth IMO....if you can play you'll get your shot regardless of draft status/cap impact.  That's part of why I think he's such a genius...it's not just that he has a great mind for OC but he's also got a real talent to spot TALENT!

Other guys on our team who will benefit (or already have) from Martz's impartiality w/ regard to draft status:  Delanie Walker, Tony Wragge, Damane Duckett (when he gets off IR), Zach Keasy.  Too bad he's not on the other side of the ball too!  Although Rod Green and Parys Haralson have come on this season under Manusky, so maybe Manusky is another coach who lets the "talent" and not the "contract" play.  Good times in 9er land at LAST!
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #756 on: September 24, 2008, 02:55:59 PM »
Quote from: D-roc on September 24, 2008, 02:28:43 PM
Another angle to consider is that we have to eat about 5 mil. in Alex dead money along with getting JTO done long term.  

Are we getting ahead of ourselves on the JTO extension talk?

He has to keep this up for several more weeks or it is all obviously a moot point.

Plus the 2 mil Shaun Hill just snagged!  He got paid after only 2 decent games . . . JTO should be sitting pretty after this year.

FYI, you can't knock Nolan for starting the guy that they drafted to be the savior.  It didn't work out but that's how the ball bounces.  There are plenty of guys on our team groomed from nothing.  Example:  Wragge (undrafted), Harris (1st round but found on waivers), Jennings (7th round) . . . etc
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D-roc
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #757 on: September 25, 2008, 06:48:20 AM »
Mike Sando: O'Sullivan has impressed me very much. He was such an unknown coming into the season. That made it hard to know how to evaluate the 49ers. Right now, they have to feel better about the position. It's a very positive start. The 49ers have become much more potent in the passing game, even on third-and-long.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-3-266/Mailbag--Expectations-for-Vernon-Davis.html
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #758 on: September 27, 2008, 08:11:38 AM »
Message to JTO:  JTO, I know you're reading this and we're like brothers, both 49er fans, so I feel comfortable offering this advice....All I want you  to do is to keep playing like you've played in the last 2 games AND also not take so many hits/sacks. 

That's it...nothing else to say.  Just do that and you'd be just about at QB rating 150 or so...Say no more.

But JTO, your biggest flaw right now is that sometimes you try to keep dead plays alive too long....leading to sacks and turnovers.  You need to just toss the ball out of bounds, or throw a "dirt seeking missile" at a covered receiver when the play's dead but you won't let it.  JTO, some times when you try to keep a dead play alive you'll throw back across the field.  NO JTO, NO!  And JTO, some times when you try to keep a dead play alive you'll take an unnecessary hit or sack.  All to ill affect. 

So JTO I say to you my man (and your ARE the man)....It's a LONG season and you're a guy we REALLY need to stay healthy.  You're averaging a flipping 9 yards per pass so losing a down here and there won't kill you.  Taking a sack sure can though.  So when you're scrambling and don't find a guy in about 3 seconds or so (just set a little clock in your head)....Just huck it OB or into the ground and call the huddle for the next play......MmmKaay...That'd be great.

But otherwise keep up the great work....Seriously.  Go JTO! 

Oh....And I'm gonna need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday too....
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #759 on: September 27, 2008, 08:17:58 AM »
Flacksaw:  If JTO acted as you say you wish,then he wouldn't be the JTO we have seen so far. His heart and wanting to never give up on a play is part of his makeup that makes him who he is.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #760 on: September 27, 2008, 08:20:33 AM »
Quote from: TIM on September 27, 2008, 08:17:58 AM
Flacksaw:  If JTO acted as you say you wish,then he wouldn't be the JTO we have seen so far. His heart and wanting to never give up on a play is part of his makeup that makes him who he is.

Dare I say he has a little S. Young in him?  Ok JK & could not resist! Smiley
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #761 on: September 27, 2008, 08:41:12 AM »
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But JTO, your biggest flaw right now is that sometimes you try to keep dead plays alive too long....leading to sacks and turnovers.  You need to just toss the ball out of bounds, or throw a "dirt seeking missile" at a covered receiver when the play's dead but you won't let it.  JTO, some times when you try to keep a dead play alive you'll throw back across the field.  NO JTO, NO!  And JTO, some times when you try to keep a dead play alive you'll take an unnecessary hit or sack.  All to ill affect.

This post may have applied after week one, but makes no sense at all NOW.   None.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 08:59:13 AM by TIM » Logged
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #762 on: September 27, 2008, 09:30:45 AM »
How Big is This Game?

Bloggers, we've reached agreement on Sunday's game in the Bayou. It's a big one. Just consider, if the 49ers win, they gain even more confidence and some would even give them a chance at home the next week against the Brady-less Patriots. If they win that game, some would give them a chance the next week against the Eagles at home. If they win in New Orleans, they might even stir some national interest in their journeyman quarterback, embattled head coach and revitalized offensive coordinator.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?blogid=45&entry_id=30856
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #763 on: September 27, 2008, 09:37:44 AM »
IF.   We will be saying that for the next several weeks ,won't we?   A tough stretch ahead !
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #764 on: September 27, 2008, 10:12:38 AM »
Like last year, the 49ers are off to a 2-1 start; unlike 2007, though, when their offense through three games was less than potent and that helped set the tone for a 5-11 finish, the Niner 'O' has fared well this year. In fact, the 49ers, led by journeyman quarterback J.T. O'Sullivan and new coordinator Mike Martz, have the NFL's 11th-ranked offense. San Francisco is presently averaging 342 total yards per game (214-plus passing, over 127 rushing).

http://www.realfootball365.com/articles/niners/12753
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #765 on: September 27, 2008, 11:01:22 AM »
Anyone watch that Montana vs Elway shootout last night on 212?  I want THAT guy back!  That game should be required viewing material before every other game.  That's how you take your lumps and make plays at the same time.  It wasn't a mistake-free game, but it sure was a GREAT fight. 

That's the kind of game JTO grew up watching.  Damn, Joe was good!

JTO, if you're reading this . . . do what flacksaw said . . . but watch that game for me.  Start to finish.  Joe took some sacks too, so it will be okay.  He kept getting up though, just like you do.  Keep doing what you're doing and keep getting up.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #766 on: September 27, 2008, 11:25:37 AM »
Yeah Smoke,I recorded it on my dvr from NFL Network !!!  I can't wait to see it again.  Montana vs Elway !!!
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #767 on: September 27, 2008, 02:08:31 PM »
Quote from: smoking_rubber on September 27, 2008, 11:01:22 AM
Anyone watch that Montana vs Elway shootout last night on 212?  I want THAT guy back!  That game should be required viewing material before every other game.  That's how you take your lumps and make plays at the same time.  It wasn't a mistake-free game, but it sure was a GREAT fight. 

That's the kind of game JTO grew up watching.  Damn, Joe was good!

JTO, if you're reading this . . . do what flacksaw said . . . but watch that game for me.  Start to finish.  Joe took some sacks too, so it will be okay.  He kept getting up though, just like you do.  Keep doing what you're doing and keep getting up.

Watched it this afternoon and always loved the end when Dan Dierdorf says "take my now lord I've seen it all" right after Joe does what JOE DO! Smiley
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #768 on: September 28, 2008, 01:49:00 PM »
"But JTO, your biggest flaw right now is that sometimes you try to keep dead plays alive too long....leading to sacks and turnovers.  You need to just toss the ball out of bounds, or throw a "dirt seeking missile" at a covered receiver when the play's dead but you won't let it.  JTO, some times when you try to keep a dead play alive you'll throw back across the field.  NO JTO, NO!  And JTO, some times when you try to keep a dead play alive you'll take an unnecessary hit or sack.  All to ill affect."

"This post may have applied after week one, but makes no sense at all NOW.   None."

Really MountainJack?  I'm ready for your apology now, something like "Flacksaw, you were right and I should know better than to go against you.  I'm sorry."  Can you say VINDICATED?  What am I prescient?  Psychic?  Do I see the future....No but I am good at player evaluation and telling a player's weaknesses.  JTO's weakness, as evidenced today, is that he tries to keep dead plays alive too long, as I said on Saturday....he really needed to read my post, I guess he didn't.  At the very least, given my track record of calling things I'd hope for a little support around here but NO, there's always a naysayer around it seems...WRONG!
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #769 on: September 28, 2008, 03:58:13 PM »
Flack: I don't see how the Saints game vindicates your post.  JT did have two horrible interceptions in the end zone but I don't see where either of them had anything to do with him holding the ball too long AT ALL. The only time in the red zone I remember him holding the ball too long was when he threw that TD to I. Bruce after holding the ball a long time. I guess that vindicates MJ ? lol.

And if you are thinking that him getting sacked so many times was because he held the ball too long then I think you should watch the game again. It seemed to me that the blitzer was on him so fast on most of those plays that he had very little chance to do anything. And lets not forget that in the Martz system the QB is supposed to get rid of the ball quickly many times but also many many times the QB is supposed to hold the ball under pressure until the play developes.

So,in reality it looked to me that those two passes in the endzone where the passes were intercepted were either the receivers being so intimidated from being pounded around and knocked off of their patterns all day that they were shying away from running the proper routes ...or more likely they were just two horrible and unexplainable decisions by JT. But neither of then were held all that long.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #770 on: September 28, 2008, 04:02:54 PM »
Quote from: TIM on September 28, 2008, 03:58:13 PM
Flack: I don't see how the Saints game vindicates your post.  JT did have two horrible interceptions in the end zone but I don't see where either of them had anything to do with him holding the ball too long AT ALL. The only time in the red zone I remember him holding the ball too long was when he threw that TD to I. Bruce after holding the ball a long time. I guess that vindicates MJ ? lol.

And if you are thinking that him getting sacked so many times was because he held the ball too long then I think you should watch the game again. It seemed to me that the blitzer was on him so fast on most of those plays that he had very little chance to do anything. And lets not forget that in the Martz system the QB is supposed to get rid of the ball quickly many times but also many many times the QB is supposed to hold the ball under pressure until the play developes.

So,in reality it looked to me that those two passes in the endzone where the passes were intercepted were either the receivers being so intimidated from being pounded around and knocked off of their patterns all day that they were shying away from running the proper routes ...or more likely they were just two horrible and unexplainable decisions by JT. But neither of then were held all that long.

I'd go with the latter. but that's just me lol
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #771 on: September 28, 2008, 04:05:00 PM »
Ummm...perhaps you recall the fumble in the first half?  No?  

And at least 3 of the sacks could have been avoided.  I call that vindication.  The fumble in the first half was huge.  All three of JTO's turns were huge but the first one, the fumble where he held the ball forever looking....looking....cost us making it close at halftime.

And I'm about as big a JTO fan as you'll find.  Today poor OLine play, unnecessary sacks, and JTO's turns cost us the game.  One of those turns and 3 of those sacks were because JTO held the ball too long.

Perhaps you'd want to take a second look....
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #772 on: September 28, 2008, 04:32:29 PM »
I stand by my post .
Do you always hold the QB responsible for all sacks and interceptions and fumbles? Even when the play is possibly set up for the QB to hold the ball until a play developes? If a O lineman misses his block and a blitzer comes free and hits a QB from behind while he is in the process of possibly making a big pass play happen,then is it the QB's fault for not seeing the guy coming,when he is not supposed to be there? Sometimes yes and often no.
I have no idea about what the play call was on that fumble and therefore I don't know if he was supposed to be holding that ball waiting for the receiver to run his route etc (if the OLineman messed up the play by letting his man get to JT's back then the O lineman was responsible for the fumble. Like they were for so many pass rushers running free all day long. Maybe JT should have "felt" him coming,I don'tknow. Or maybe it was just like any other play where a lineman or a RB misses a block and the QB is helpless. ?

I think JT took a step back today in the progress he was making in protecting the ball,a big step back. But I don't really see that he held the ball too long all that much today.

And I personally think that the pathetic defense lost the game. And bad coaching on the defensive side. For the most part the offense was fairly good or at least ok and without JT's two blunders in the end zone we could have easily still won the game. But the defense was one blunder after another and it seems to me mostly by the coaching staff.
Quote from: commoncents on September 28, 2008, 04:02:54 PM

So,in reality it looked to me that those two passes in the endzone where the passes were intercepted were either the receivers being so intimidated from being pounded around and knocked off of their patterns all day that they were shying away from running the proper routes ...or more likely they were just two horrible and unexplainable decisions by JT. But neither of then were held all that long.

I'd go with the latter. but that's just me lol
[/quote]
As I said ,I also believe it is the latter. But I also am just thinking out loud about what could have possibly caused JT to throw those two balls in the endzone,with neither one ever having any chance of being caught by a Niner. Either JT lost his mind (like we saw before in a similar preseason pick) or there is an explanation. I will be very interested to hear if anyone ever explains what happened. Did they interview JT after the game and ask him to TRY to explain what the heck he was thinking when he threw those passes ?
-----------------

And this quote from Bryan's post about the game seems to confirm what I was thinking...at least it confirms that me and Bry were thinking alike. Don't worry Bry,it will pass  Wink

"In the redzone you can't always throw to the same spot as a regular play, you need to read more, and be creative in making minor adjustments."

So an interesting question is,was JT throwing to a spot in the endzone where the receivers were supposed to be BUT they (one of them or both ?) ran a wrong route or what ? I am just curious. It seems that those 2 passes were sooooooo bad that there has to be some explanation. Or maybe not? Maybe JT just goes screwy every once in a while. They said he had trouble throwing int's at the worst times in his past. Who knows?
.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #773 on: September 28, 2008, 05:08:02 PM »
Will JTO career be over after the Eagles game if the OL keeps on offering this level of pass protection and Martz still calls 7 steps drops?
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #774 on: September 28, 2008, 08:36:14 PM »
This from Matt M's blog....


Comment:
 See what happens when you go and mention an "offensive turnaround," Matt?

Response
: Just remember: The 49ers' offensive performance today was still better than most anything we saw last season. --Matt M.


--------------------------

And this from the Mercury News in San Jose...

O'Sullivan spent much of his day running for cover. The Saints sacked him six times, including two by Charles Grant.

O'Sullivan has been sacked 19 times in four games. He said Sunday that he felt he was getting the ball out fast and making the right reads. Still, he took some hard shots and got up slowly after some sacks.

"He was on the ground way too much,'' right tackle Barry Sims said. "It's hard to make plays when you're getting put to the ground like that."

-------------

Hey Barry Sims.... If you would try to block your man more often on passing plays ,perhaps JT could stay on his feet a bit longer? ( and that goes for the rest of the O line and also explains why Martz needs to keep VD in to block so much that he rarely gets used as a pass catching TE. ).
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #775 on: September 29, 2008, 05:54:16 AM »
Quote from: TIM on September 28, 2008, 04:32:29 PM
Maybe JT just goes screwy every once in a while. They said he had trouble throwing int's at the worst times in his past. Who knows?
.

Not once in a while TIM.  It is his MO.  At least in college.  When he gets pressured, he either forces it, or fumbles it. 

He is still new.  The offense is still new.  Our HC still sucks.  Would have been nice to win this game, but it is a long season.  I think we get better as the year goes on.  JTO is gonna have some bad games.  Hopefully he learns from them and gets better.  He still holds the ball too long.  (Wonders out loud:  Didn't we have a problem with that at QB last year?)

Now...we do have a QB he almost never holds it too long.  Can't throw over twenty yards...but he does get the ball out fast. ;-)
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #776 on: September 29, 2008, 06:12:38 AM »
This was only J.T.'s fourth start and he'll make mistakes as he progresses, but he needs protection.  The OL is like a sieve, so Martz had better start using some moving pockets or curtail the empty backfield scheme.  Before  you complainers start jumping all over JT for his two interceptions, let's keep it all in perspective.  O’Sullivan was either hit, sacked or pressured on 23 of his first 29 pass attempts.  Here's a recap of yesterday:

Interceptions:  Kurt Warner, Aaron Rodgers, Brian Griese all had 3;  Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers and Kyle Orton all had 2.

Fumbles lost:  Kurt Warner (4), Kyle Orton (2)

Real problem:  Defense.  Nolan loves the nickel so anybody will be able to run against us.  Zero sacks.  Terrible pass coverage schemes.  What a genius.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 08:34:40 AM by mountainjack » Logged
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #777 on: September 29, 2008, 10:34:54 AM »
Isn't it weird that a 5 time superbowl winner has a 6year walk on QB who has been cut by all previous teams and never played a down is our starter ? Is it possible that 6-8 HC's, OC's and QB coaches on different teams (with better records than us?) have not been able to see this diamond.

I am not saying that we have anyone else, but how in the world can our team put itself in this situation ?
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #778 on: September 29, 2008, 10:52:21 AM »
I agree with Cap and Flack.  JT was definitely holding onto the ball too long a number of times.  The Oline play wasn't great, but JT has to read when they are sending a Safety blitz or CB blitz and get the ball out of there.  Other times he was still looking down the field when he should have been throwing it away or running for whatever he could pick up.  He had a bad game.  No one is great every week, but he does need to start living for another play instead of always thinking it's his last one.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #779 on: September 29, 2008, 11:02:55 AM »
While he could have played better yesterday (those 2 turnovers hurt) and might have been the difference.  To this point our OL stinks and unless they improve significantly JTO is not going to remain healthy.  They were getting him killed yesterday.  I expect JTO to continue to improve if he starts getting better protection.
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