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49ersparadise.com FORUM  |  49ers Paradise  |  49ers Paradise - Literally!  |  Topic: John Thomas O'Sullivan 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: John Thomas O'Sullivan  (Read 17351 times)
TIM
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John Thomas O'Sullivan
« on: August 04, 2008, 06:47:45 PM »
Maybe he should have his own thread,since he seems to be moving on up ? ...Or if you mods out there want to close this thread and the Alex Smith and the Shaun Hill threads and  start a new thread where we can talk about all the QB's ,then so be it.

From yesterdays SF Chronicle... 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/02/SP32124C0A.DTL&feed=rss.49ers
« Last Edit: August 23, 2008, 02:16:14 PM by 49ersHarv » Logged
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 07:02:57 PM »
I warned some on the Dise, when the team hired Martz, that the unexpected should be expected. So, here at the beginning of August, the unexpected is that JT O'Sullivan may be LEADING the Niners QB race. I'm not surprised. I can't say I saw this coming, but with Martz, this kind of makes sense.

Some on here really don't seem to like the fact that JT is getting reps. Well, in looking back, JT was a pretty good college QB, a very good NFL Europe QB, and a guy that both the Saints and Vikings had hopes for at different times. I saw JT play a couple preseason games with the Saints a few years back and thought he played very well. But timing is everything, and they moved on from him.

Martz made him his surprise #2 last year and brought him along to San Francisco. This offseason, I actually thought the team might go after another former Martz disciple - Ryan Fitzpatrick - because Martz is fiercely loyal to guys he's been with before. When the team pursued Sullivan it made sense to me. But some have overblown Sullivan's work in the Martz system, in my opinion. Remember, he was just the #3 (then #2) in training camp with Detroit, so he didn't exactly get much of a chance to get reps. But he did apparently grasp the offense. That's something neither Smith nor Hill has done so far. That part concerns me.

But in my opinion, if JTO gives us the best chance to win - if he's the best QB on the roster for this offense this year - he should be the starter. The defense is good enough to win with. The running game is good enough to win with. But the passing game - lead by the QB - most definitely has not been. I don't want another year where the SF offense is stale because the QB can't lead; can't complete passes; can't get the job done. Maybe Smith is the best athlete. But maybe he isn't cut out to lead this offense. Or maybe he has to sit and see it for a year (like Sullivan) to digest it. But if he (or Hill for that matter) can't beat him out, then JTO should start. If he's the best QB in camp and the preseason (and that's certainly still a big if), then Nolan ought to have the balls to name him starter.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 07:03:45 PM »
Glad you started one because I was about to.

You know if this is how it works and JT becomes the starter, so be it. I've said it all along I don't really care who starts, so long as we win or are successful.

Truly, may THE BEST QB win!
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2008, 11:17:44 PM »
Here is a quote from that article I posted the link to above...

"At various times, the Packers and the Vikings both felt he was their future quarterback. Fortune intervened. Cal's Aaron Rodgers unexpectedly fell to the Packers in the first round of the '05 draft .   In Minnesota, O'Sullivan's chief advocate, head coach Mike Tice, got fired."

So we have maybe 3 mediocre - good QB's . Maybe one is ready to step out of the shadows and make a name for himself ? None of them are youngsters in the NFL any longer,so it's time for at least one of them to grow up and step up !
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2008, 07:08:15 AM »
http://www.49ersparadise.com/cgi-bin/news/news.cgi?action=display&num=18047

Glenn Dickey reports:

The decision on the 49ers starting quarterback could be made as early as today, offensive coordinator Mike Martz told me after the morning practice at Santa Clara on Saturday.

Martz wouldn’t say which quarterback is the likely choice, though when I asked him if there had been any surprises, he said, “J.T. O’Sullivan has shown me more than I expected.”

Don’t read too much into that. O’Sullivan had just had an excellent practice, completing two long passes to Isaac Bruce, but he had been working with the first unit. All three quarterbacks have looked better working with the first unit. The younger receivers working with the second unit don’t always run precise patterns.

O’Sullivan has been perceived to have one advantage because he is the only one of the quarterbacks to have played in Martz’s system, last year in Detroit.

“That only helps me because I know the terminology,” O’Sullivan said. “The system is always changing. I think he likes to throw in new plays just to test us.”

Martz smiled when I relayed that quote to him — and he agreed.

“I like to call something that isn’t even in the playbook to see how they react to stress,” he said.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2008, 08:23:08 AM »
Quote from: mountainjack on August 05, 2008, 07:08:15 AM
Martz wouldn't say which quarterback is the likely choice, though when I asked him if there had been any surprises, he said, "J.T. O'Sullivan has shown me more than I expected."

O'Sullivan has shown him more than he expected?  Since Martz usually speaks his mind, I'd say that he initially didn't expect very much from him.  If that's the case, then I think him bringing in O'Sullivan was more to give Smith and Hill a sense of urgency than any desire to start the guy right away.

See, Mike Martz is what we call a genius.  He knew everyone would immediately start thinking, "well he lobbied for this guy so it must be his guy, and when Martz has his guy, that's it."  He knew the other quarterbacks would immediately start looking over their shoulder at the guy.  Smith vs. Hill?  enh.  We know who wins that one.  Throw in JTO and now you have a guy who knows the system, and it's incumbent on the other guys to be intense, hungry and on top of things mentally and physically.

Consider Martz' penchant for testing guys.  You have JTO's quote above.  You have Smith staying in after the firsts go out to run with the seconds last night because Martz wanted to see how he handled it.  Martz not only teaches his system, but he turns up the heat on people psychologically.  Did he start giving more reps to O'Sullivan because he genuinely thinks JTO can be his QB?  We don't know how much of this laboratory is set up to test and how much is real.  Smith and Hill had to say "uh-oh" when JTO came in and had so many reps.

Something interesting Maiocco said on KNBR yesterday, he mentioned the fact about the wind at Candlestick, and how Martz likes to have his QB's sling those deep outs and seams.  Only one guy has an arm for that. 
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2008, 12:26:34 PM »
Quote from: indianajim on August 05, 2008, 08:23:08 AM
Smith vs. Hill? enh. We know who wins that one.

In real game type situations,yes we do know...

Against the Raiders in Napa ...

Here are the QB stats for the evening session during the 11-on-11
drills: Smith 8 of 18 with two TDs and one interception; Shaun Hill 8
of 10 with one touchdown, one interception; and J.T. O'Sullivan 4 of
7.

For the day . . . Smith 16 of 30 with two TDS and one interception;
Hill 12 of 15 with one TD, one interception; and O'Sullivan 9 of 15.


Looks like against an opposing team,in more game like situations,Hill still has a far better QB rating,just like last year.
If the three have similar numbers again in all the preseason games then it will be a tough decision for the staff,even with hill's rag arm,lol . (if it were a REAL contest and they were not going to give it to Smith right from the start,no matter what ? )
Hill looking good in real type situations and Smith reportedly still very unsure of himself in the system and JT very sure of himself... Smith had better step up in preseason GAMES or they might actually start re-thinking just handing him the job. (but I doubt it ,If it were my decision I would also give him every opportunity and he would have to lose the starting job with his play before I considered one of the other two. Maybe not fair to the other two but they must see if their bonus baby has the goods and if he doesn't get to play then they will never really know for sure).
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 12:31:53 PM »
I would like to see how many yards each player actually got out of those completions.  Yeah Hill may have a 67% completion rate, but is he dropping off a 2 yard pass to Gore and not actually moving the team?
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 12:35:10 PM »
I know TIM did not just do that again.  I'm not going back through who Hill's opponents were.  I'm just not.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 12:37:11 PM »
Quote from: indianajim on August 05, 2008, 08:23:08 AM
Martz likes to have his QB's sling those deep outs and seams. Only one guy has an arm for that.

I have not seen it yet but everyone says that JT has a fine arm.And he is supposed to be able to scramble and keep broken plays alive etc ( maybe some "it" like Hill ? ).

I will reserve any REAL judgement until we see at least a couple of preseason games . Really I don't expect to see Smith or Hill look comfortable in the system until at least opening day,and really not even then (that is why this whole 3 way split of practice time is so stupid,Smith needs the snaps to get ready and by all accounts he is nowhere near ready yet and either is Hill,while JT just needs enough time to get familiar with his receivers and work the kinks out.
I read that there is a rumor that they are going to make a decision very soon about the starter. If that is true I hope they start giving the lions share of practice time to Smith and most of the leftovers to Hill and just enough to JT so he doesn't get too rusty.I will be shocked if the rumor that JT is going to be named the starter is anything but a rumor started to wake Smith up.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2008, 12:41:28 PM »
Smith struggled at times, but he finished pretty strong. Martz seemed to direct his instruction to others a lot of times during those incomplete passes -- a young receiver running a wrong route, etc. Smith is throwing the intermediate ball very well, but it looks as if he's still a little unsure of his progressions.

http://www.49ersparadise.com/cgi-bin/news/news.cgi?action=display&num=18052

Just thought I'd throw that out there...
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2008, 12:48:07 PM »
Quote from: 9erLikeWoah on August 05, 2008, 12:31:53 PM
I would like to see how many yards each player actually got out of those completions. Yeah Hill may have a 67% completion rate, but is he dropping off a 2 yard pass to Gore and not actually moving the team?

He moved the team very very very well in games last year with a bunch of shorter passes(not all dump offs,by any stretch of the imagination but most under 20 yards.)..And Martz always says that the QB should take what the defense gives him and Hill does that wonderfully.
----------------------------

And KS, are not Hill and JT throwing to the same receivers? Yes ! Let's not start with more excuses for Smith ,like he has had too much of over the last 3 years. So give him 2 or 3 more receptions (blaming the receivers for drops or wrong routes)and his #'s are still pretty poor to fair. It's time for him to step out of the fog and get it together. He will have his opportunity this Friday and in the next 3 weeks after that to show he is grasping the system. I think he will step up and do alright.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 12:50:53 PM »
Quote
Looks like against an opposing team,in more game like situations,Hill still has a far better QB rating,just like last year.

I mean did you really just equate a joint PRACTICE with "game-like" situations?

Quote from: TIM on August 05, 2008, 12:37:11 PM
Quote from: indianajim on August 05, 2008, 08:23:08 AM
Martz likes to have his QB's sling those deep outs and seams. Only one guy has an arm for that.

I have not seen it yet but everyone says that JT has a fine arm.  And he is supposed to be able to scramble and keep broken plays alive etc ( maybe some "it" like Hill ? ).

Per Maiocco O'Sullivan often does not set his feet when he throws, and he and Barrows concur on who has the better arm.

Alex has shown plenty of this "it" of which you speak when given a chance to get out there and go.  Do not give me anything from last season because everyone was so restricted... until Ted Tollner came in.  By that point Smith was out with injury and didn't have a chance.  Give him the same play calls that Hill had and we wouldn't have had this farce of a "competition."

Hill was 2-0 in his starts.  Smith was 2-1 when his arm was not falling off.  Smith has gotten rougher treatment than anyone in this offseason and he keeps a smile on his face and keeps going.  He is more resilient than people give him credit for.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 01:11:02 PM »
TIM these game like situations with no pass rush and a tackle constitutes wrapping up?
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2008, 01:15:33 PM »
TIM - You are having too much fun with this.  I can see you rolling on the floor each time you get Indy in an uproar.  Really...guys...can we wait until at least after the game on Friday to make any comparisons?
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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2008, 01:42:34 PM »
Quote from: CapitolNiners on August 05, 2008, 01:15:33 PM
TIM - You are having too much fun with this. I can see you rolling on the floor each time you get Indy in an uproar. Really...guys...can we wait until at least after the game on Friday to make any comparisons?

You have us figured out Cap !  We are having fun poking each other in the ribs ! I think we both would agree with you that most of this nonsense in practice and scrimmages with the Raiders etc etc is rather worthless. (especially quoting stats from practice or even the slightly more important scrimmage). We all must wait until at least a couple of preseason games before we form any solid conclusions (except that Nolan is in over his head ,lol ). I probably won't have any firm conclusions until I see at least 4 regular season games . (unless Alex or whoever is sooooo bad that I can't avoid throwing things at my 65 inch HD TV !!! ,lol ).
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« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2008, 02:04:37 PM »
Quote from: TIM on August 05, 2008, 01:42:34 PM
I probably won't have any firm conclusions until I see at least 4 regular season games . (unless Alex or whoever is sooooo bad that I can't avoid throwing things at my 65 inch HD TV !!! ,lol ).

I wanna come over to TIM's house!  Too bad I live in Indiana.
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2008, 02:19:22 PM »
Quote from: indianajim on August 05, 2008, 02:04:37 PM
Quote from: TIM on August 05, 2008, 01:42:34 PM
I probably won't have any firm conclusions until I see at least 4 regular season games . (unless Alex or whoever is sooooo bad that I can't avoid throwing things at my 65 inch HD TV !!! ,lol ).

I wanna come over to TIM's house! Too bad I live in Indiana.

See,that's why my opinion of Alex is more informed than yours,I have a bigger picture and I can see him better when he is trying to carry out the plays,lol . (mine is bigger than yours !  Shocked Wink )
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2008, 02:28:25 PM »
Quote from: KS_Niner on August 05, 2008, 12:41:28 PM
Smith struggled at times, but he finished pretty strong. Martz seemed to direct his instruction to others a lot of times during those incomplete passes -- a young receiver running a wrong route, etc. Smith is throwing the intermediate ball very well, but it looks as if he's still a little unsure of his progressions.

http://www.49ersparadise.com/cgi-bin/news/news.cgi?action=display&num=18052

Just thought I'd throw that out there...
So that's it! It's a conspiracy! The receivers are running wrong routes and dropping passes on purpose when Smith's throwing the ball. In fact, I'm sure TIM's behind it all.
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2008, 02:47:25 PM »
I read two articles about today's combo practice with the Raiders. Barrows has this to say:
"If you had to pick one guy as the "starter" today, it would be Shaun Hill, who saw the most work with the first-team offense, although J.T. O'Sullivan did as well. Alex Smith worked with the second team."
  He doesn't even mention Smith with the first team.

But the Press Democrat talks about all three QB's with the first team.
"Overall in 11-on-11 drills, Smith was 8 of 12, O'Sullivan was 5 of 8 and Hill was 4 of 5."

Smith threw the ball pretty well in the intermediate routes, and he showed a little better touch on the short throws."
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2008, 03:34:25 PM »
Nobody's making excuses or insinuating any conspiracies.  I just think its beyond stupid to cite a QB's completion percentage as evidence of one guy being better than another when its JUST PRACTICE.  The ENTIRE offense is a work-in-progress right now and none of us knows what's really going on.  Martz runs a rigid system, so there will be times when an incompletion is not the QB's fault.  Get over it.
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2008, 04:54:39 PM »
Quote from: KS_Niner on August 05, 2008, 03:34:25 PM
Nobody's making excuses or insinuating any conspiracies.  I just think its beyond stupid to cite a QB's completion percentage as evidence of one guy being better than another when its JUST PRACTICE.  The ENTIRE offense is a work-in-progress right now and none of us knows what's really going on.  Martz runs a rigid system, so there will be times when an incompletion is not the QB's fault.  Get over it.
I was just trying to point out that all 3 QBs have the same WRs to throw to. And I saw your comment as yet another Alex Smith excuse: If Alex misses it's the WRs fault. If Hill misses it's because he has a weak arm. If JT makes a good throw it's because he know the system. It's just so predictable! 
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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2008, 04:59:14 PM »
Quote from: mountainjack on August 05, 2008, 02:47:25 PM
I read two articles about today's combo practice with the Raiders. Barrows has this to say:
"If you had to pick one guy as the "starter" today, it would be Shaun Hill, who saw the most work with the first-team offense, although J.T. O'Sullivan did as well. Alex Smith worked with the second team."
  He doesn't even mention Smith with the first team.

Dude.  You are so misrepresenting what Barrows was saying.  He was merely telling us that Shaun Hill was slated to go FIRST.  He STARTED the practice.

You're almost as bad as TIM at taking what you want out of what you read.
Wink TIM.
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2008, 05:19:49 PM »
Kevin Lynch just said on knbr that if things continue as it is now ,that JT will almost surly start the 1st game of the season. He said JT is head and shoulders above the other two QB's and there might be a team mutiny(WR's and TE's etc ) if they start anyone but JT (if things continue as they have been for the last 3-4 days. )

.
Quote from: indianajim on August 05, 2008, 04:59:14 PM

You're almost as bad as TIM at taking what you want out of what you read.
Wink TIM.

Ouch !!!  Tongue  BIG poke in the ribs !  Wink Cool
Quote from: KS_Niner on August 05, 2008, 03:34:25 PM
Nobody's making excuses or insinuating any conspiracies. I just think its beyond stupid to cite a QB's completion percentage as evidence of one guy being better than another when its JUST PRACTICE. The ENTIRE offense is a work-in-progress right now and none of us knows what's really going on. Martz runs a rigid system, so there will be times when an incompletion is not the QB's fault. Get over it.

The voice of reason ! Are you sure you belong here KS ?  Wink Grin
--------------------

And Barrows picks Hill as leading for the starting job. And Lynch says it's definately JT and most of us believe it will be Smith... It looks like we are all a bunch of "So called experts " !!!   Tongue
------------------
Kevin just back tracked a bit later in the interview and said Smith is showing flashes of getting it and if he ever does he might turn out to be pretty good in the Martz system.

So it looks like Hill and JT and Smith are all locks to be the starter on opening day !  They need to get Wright in on this so Nolan can be fair and give them all 1 quarter each in that 1st game !!!  Tongue Roll Eyes Tongue
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2008, 05:35:27 PM »
That last post came across a little stronger than I intended.  I really laughed at hojer's conspiracy post.  Ooops!

hojer - What you said would make sense if I was pimping JT or you were talking about another poster, but I feel I've made it pretty clear all along just how ridiculous I think it is to follow each QB's stats everyday.

If we were talking about Alex's cummulative stats, than I would agree that the WR thing cancels itself out over time.  But that wasn't what was going here - we were citing a single day's stats like it means something.  On any given day, the number of mistakes the WR's make will fluctuate.  So it is possible that stuff can have a greater impact on one QB's stats in any given day.  So saying "they're throwing to the same guys" really doesn't prove anything, because those "same guys" will have good & bad days - just like the rest of us.

What's funny to me is that anything negative said about Alex will likely end up posted on here, while anything positive or anything that could change how that "negative statement" gets interpreted is completely ignored by the same poster(s).  The same could be said of anything negative about JT or Hill, but to a much lesser extent.  It seems obvious that ppl are looking for evidence to support their position and ignoring anything contrary to it.  So in that sense, you are right - it is "just so predictable".
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2008, 05:44:21 PM »
No matter who starts the first game, if they lose two in a row, the second guy will probably be in there. That's when the fun begins. Roll Eyes
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2008, 05:50:49 PM »
Quote from: KS_Niner on August 05, 2008, 05:35:27 PM

What's funny to me is that anything negative said about Alex will likely end up posted on here, while anything positive or anything that could change how that "negative statement" gets interpreted is completely ignored

Don't worry,if anything,anything at all good about Alex is known to mankind,Indy will post it,alot ! . Everything else about any of the other QB's is simply equal time,lol.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2008, 06:22:10 PM »
Quote from: TIM on August 05, 2008, 05:50:49 PM
Quote from: KS_Niner on August 05, 2008, 05:35:27 PM

What's funny to me is that anything negative said about Alex will likely end up posted on here, while anything positive or anything that could change how that "negative statement" gets interpreted is completely ignored

Don't worry,if anything,anything at all good about Alex is known to mankind,Indy will post it,alot ! . Everything else about any of the other QB's is simply equal time,lol.

ROFL, baby.

TIM I think Kevin Lynch sounded a lot different from Maiocco and Barrows.  It seems to me over the last couple days that the tone is Smith is improving while O'Sullivan isn't yet taking any great strides forward.  Obviously we need to see how it goes, but Lynchie seems to be putting a more negative spin on things than the other two guys.  I think he may be buying into the media line on this a little bit because of his standing with the "big" paper.
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2008, 08:40:02 PM »
I'll confuse the issue even more.  This is from a post on another forum:


Last night I watched the Niners/Raiders practice, and it was awesome, but before i describe why it was awesome here is some things I wanna point out.

Lelie looked very good

O-Line looked good, but had a couple moments of letting the Line break.

Alex looked horrible. The line would give him enough time to throw it, but he would just sit there, and hold on to it until he got sacked, or he had to rush out of the pocket, and then throw it away, but towards the end he completed a couple in a row, but overall I thought he looked horrible.

I didn't get a chance to really watch the defense, like I wanted to, but when I did, they looked very physical, and I witnessed a very athletic pass break-up by one of the linebackers, and that would be Manny Lawson.

I didnt get to see Hill, or Sullivan. The whole time I was there it was Smith.

My overall summary: Smith looked bad at the beginning, but got better towards the end, leading the niners 80 yards for a touchdown against their 2nd string defense ....Defense looked very aggressive (breaking balls up, getting pressure..etc). but they did have their moments, but they overall looked good.
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indianajim
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Re: John Thomas O'Sullivan
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2008, 08:42:49 PM »
Yeah.  Doesn't sound like a very informed opinion.

I don't know where you got that but I'll take the balance of Barrows, Maiocco and Lynch over that.  Lelie looked very good?  Well Maiocco did say this: "Ashley Lelie got a lot of action and caught several balls."  High praise, I guess.  And he didn't see Hill or O'Sullivan?  Then he wasn't paying very good attention as Ashley Lelie caught their passes.

Barrows: "Two things jumped out in the late practice here in Napa. One, Alex Smith looked sharp directing a two-minute drill with the second-team offense..."

and...

"First, Smith executed it pretty darn well. Some of his passes are still late and thrown behind his receivers. This has been a common element in Smith this training camp. But the bottom line is that he steadily moved the team down the field and began to display a command of the offense that Mike Martz predicted would start showing right about now."

Sorry, I'm just trying to keep TIM and BOB from panicking and start to swing at each other. Tongue
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 08:49:42 PM by indianajim » Logged

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